Like Halle Berry v Kerry Katona...

Like Halle Berry v Kerry Katona...

Rooney > Messi? You Having A Laugh?
Fair play to all those Rooney 'defendants'. I say defendant but I wasnt having a go, just pointing out the folly of comparing a really good player who is having a great season to a really great player who is having a genius season. A few points:

1. The guy who said Rooney was more versatile. Messi can play up top or across the midfield, Rooney is a striker...Which of course makes Messi's goal haul even more impressive, as he isn't even the main striker in the team (Zlatan is).

2. How can you compare stats, it's a different league and they play in different positions. Thierry Henry has scored less goals this season than David Ngog, who would you prefer? And internationals are the same. Messi plays in a poor Argentina side against good quality nations. Rooney can fill his boots against poor, poor opposition.

3. To Wim from Belgium. How can you put down La Liga as being weak opposition when a number of Rooney's goals came in a World Cup qualifying group containing such footballing luminaries as Belarus, Kazakhstan and Andorra!?

4. Rooney is better in the bigger games? Granted he scored against Liverpool, yet for the rest of the game he was in Jamie Carragher's back pocket. He has an atrocious record against Liverpool, Chelsea and Everton. Lionel Messi has a Champions League Final goal, he's scored many against the top teams in Spain and a shedload in the Champions League.

5. Fred the Cable Guy, absolutely I think they can change a game on their own. And that is absolutely based on watching Rooney!!! He has been a monster at finishing team moves this season but the other players are actually better at changing a game on their own. How many brilliant solo efforts or screamers do you see Rooney scoring recently? Note that I wasnt saying any of them were 'better' than Rooney, but are better at changing a game with a moment of brilliance. Rooney is a more consistent scorer (this season, as Kevin Phillips used to be.....).

One more thing Wim, it won't be between Messi and Rooney for Player of the Year awards. It'll be between Rooney, Ronaldo and Fabregas maybe for second place. I'll bet you a steak dinner that Messi wins the World Player of the Year, FIFA Player of the Year, Ballon D'or and any other worldwide award in which he'd be in direct competition with Rooney.

In fairness it's normally very difficult to determine just who is the best player in the world. At the moment it's very, very easy to see though. And I wouldn't want to mock anyone or call their opinions wrong. But if you think it's anyone other than Lionel Messi...then you're wrong.
Adam 'The White Dennis Rodman' Norris


...Rooney is brilliant, he is an excellent player, no question, but if he is to challenge Messi for the accolade of best player in the world, he surely should have out-shone Ronaldo when they played together. Last season, he was no where near as prolific as this season and you could argue that he was upstaged by a better player. Let's not sugar coat the fact the this season he is United's main goal threat, he is the focal point. Goals aren't being banged in by anyone else in the team.

Messi however is in a team full of goal scorers and does not play as an all-out striker like Rooney. He is competing with the likes of Zlatan, Pedro, Xavi, Iniesta and Henry to score goals and he is still banging them in from an advanced midfield position.

His second goal against Zaragoza also showed his willingness to tackle and win the ball. Plus, he is three years younger than Rooney so arguably has not even reached his peak yet.

I would contend that if Messi continues going the way he is going, he will go down as the best player football has ever seen. Better than Maradona, better than Pele - one prolific season from Rooney (and in my opinion Ronaldo) does not qualify them to be mentioned with these greats. Messi however has been consistently brilliant, every season, since he burst onto the scene and judging by the evidence of the past two seasons, he is only getting better.
Jovan, Dublin


...Hello. Can I just state that I am in utter disbelief that there is even a 'debate' going on about Messi v Rooney? It is staggering to this observer's eyes.

Look. Wayne Rooney is an excellent player who has gone from strength to strength and has had a phenomenal run of form this season - however this is the first ever season in which Rooney has hit such heights.

Lionel Messi has just been voted by Barcelona fans the best player in their club's illustrious history. And please note, this is a club that had players of the calibre of Michael Laudrup, Stoichkov, Guardiola himself, (real) Ronaldo, Maradona and Romario. This was no close-shave poll, this was in excess of 65% of Barca fans.

Now of course that is a subjective matter. What is far from subjective however is that Messi is the superior footballer. I saw Messi tear Man United to shreds in a European final that Rooney never showed up in. Messi is the reigning World and European footballer of the year - and is favourite to repeat the feat again this season.

Messi is not an out-and-out centre-forward who finishes off team moves with expert aplomb, he is a wide forward who is a one-man army dictating play in the final third. And yet, he has managed to outscore Rooney! Messi is not just a great goalscorer, but is also a scorer of great goals.

I honestly find the whole 'debate' laughable. Why not start up a debate of who is fitter between Halle Berry and Kerry Katona then? Go on.

Only in England could such hype reach epic proportions. Rooney is an excellent player. However, I have never heard a single opposition manager describe him as 'the best player I have ever seen in my life'.

Which is how the Zaragoza manager described him over the weekend.

Jesus you remind me of the Arsenal fans who compared Denilson to Fabregas based on a half-season!
Stewie Griffin (Though Silvestre is better than Vidic)


...As much as Wim Van Walle would like to make out the Rooney and Messi are on a par, maybe he should've taken all the stats from the site in question and not cherry picked. While I'm not certain if performances for country and team should be lumped together, for the sake of completeness here are the full stats for the 2009-2010 season (so far):

GS SB G A SH SG FC FS YC RC
Rooney 45 2 39 6 244 86 31 43 6 0
Messi 45 4 36 10 166 85 37 124 5 0

GS: Games Started, SB: Used as Substitute, G: Goals, A: Assists, SH: Shots, SG: Shots on goal,
FC: Fouls Committed, FS: Fouls Suffered, YC: Yellow Cards, RC: Red Cards

Now, maybe it's just me, but Rooney with 39 goals/244 shots and Messi 36 goals/166 shots just makes Messi's goals tally phenomenal, especially compared to Rooney. And Messi is a midfielder to boot!

Looking at fouls suffered, Messi has been fouled 124 times to Rooney's 43. People might say Rooney build allows him to shrug off 'lesser' tackles that would bring down Messi, Rooney is stronger and Messi is just too slight (and probably lucky he hasn't had his leg broken yet) but that would be ignoring how teams mark Messi - triple teaming him is usually an option and from the stats, fouling him is up there too.

And looking at the yellow cards stats, Messi must not react to it. Maybe it's just me, but I couldn't see Rooney keeping his cool if he was fouled three times more, deliberately hacked down because of the threat he posed. And while I've never seen Messi mouth off to a ref (unlike Rooney) I am willing to admit that could be due to not seeing enough LaLiga games. And my lack of lip-reading skills with regards to Spanish vs English might colour that somewhat.

And I love the argument that LaLiga rolls over for Barca and Real Madrid, because ManU aren't expected to win every game outside the big four/three/whatever, and even then if the lose to one of the other big teams it would be considered a bad result and a daming inditement on the team. Which means the Premier League is ManU's (and the other 'big' teams) playground.

So while Rooney is a good/great/brilliant player, Messi is better. Get over it.
Philip, Dublin


England Only Have Rooney
Fred, the Cable Guy, I don't know if you noticed, but 'players' was pluralized. I doubt anyone would argue right now against the impact that Rooney has the potential to make, but (and I'm not the first to point this out) who is behind him? No one, now that Stevie boy, the other English contender for world class, is stuck in the most significant rut that his career has had in quite a while. Please don't talk about Lampard - we're discussing the World Cup.

It's very hard for one outstanding player to lead a team to World Cup glory for a reason: there's probably a few teams that two or three top players. Oh, and then Spain, of course, with their embarrassment of talent. Oh, and teams like the Germans. Does anyone else have the sneaking fear that they might end up doing alright with their usual teutonic efficiency schtick despite arguably having no established world-class players?

Tangent aside, I'm an Italy fan, but if I were I would do my terrified best to wrap Rooney, and particularly his little English metatarsal, in a suit of armor. There is no one to step into his shoes.
Right, said Fred (sorry, couldn't help it!), Dominic, Gooner in Beijing


What About Ronaldo?
Am I looking too simply at the Messi v Rooney debate? Rooney is stronger, more versatile while Messi is trickier, more skilful... Strange that although these two great footballers have stolen the headlines of late, (perhaps deservedly) some of your informed contributors have forget a certain 80mil former World Player of the Year who actually has all the attributes of both players and but for a two-month lay-off early in the season and the great form of Higuain would surely be receiving the same plaudits that are afforded to Messrs. Rooney and Messi whose goals have been carrying their respective teams for some time.

And I'd much prefer Song in my team over Fletcher - ridiculous comparisons between him and Keane!
James (Hoping RVP can get fit enough to make the difference) Kent


Also Better Than Fletcher...
Where shall I start? Six midfielders better than Fletcher...

Essien
Mascherano
Petrov
Palacios
Fellaini
De Jong

I can't see there being any arguments here to be honest-all better players -a few even play in a four-man midfield with two wingers (how would Fletch cope with that in a big game?)

I won't even go into the more attacking options like Fabregas, Gerrard (poor form but still better), Lampard (ditto) and Arteta.

I think as a ManYoo fan you are disrespecting the greatest captain of any team in my lifetime by saying Fletch is better than Keane - although I imagine it was in jest and you spotted the opportunity to wind up the Irishman! (Yes my name must have given it away!)

Liverpool fans are hilarious on this forum with their stupidity but ManYoo fans, I feel, top even the Scousers! They have a more successful team - but still how many people wrote in at the start of the season saying Ferguson (who is the devil in my eyes!) should quit? Where are those people now I ask? Oh yeah, writing in saying Fletcher should get player of the season, saying Park is 'underrated' (wow!), saying Rooney is equal to Messi (they were on the same pitch last May guys, along with Ronaldo - how did that go?) and of course lauding Fergie.

Please guys, (Adam you too!), don't write in with silliness just to see your name on the computer screen!

And I feel you should always finish with a quote! So here it is in response to Wim Van Walle, Antwerp, Belgium,

'Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything. 14% of people know that.' (Simpson, H,)
Colm, Ahly fan (but not really!), Cairo


Bring On A Cheap XI
This may have been done before, but thought I'd shout out anyway. I was wondering what the cheapest first 11 your side could put out on any given matchday (assuming all squad players are fit).

Here's what I came up with for United.....

Foster - £1million
Neville - Free
Brown - Free
Evans - Free
O'Shea - Free
Gibson - Free
Scholes - Free
Fletcher - Free
Giggs - Free
Park - £4million
Owen - Free

= £5million

Not too bad I'm sure you'll agree. Obviously would struggle to last the full 90 with some of them knocking on a bit, but probably capable of getting a result against most Premier League teams.
Jordan, Hull


Deja Vu
Regarding Jonno McSchmonno, if that is his real name, and Leeds having the same season year after year:

With two notable exceptions, Chelsea have teased early and slowly unraveled since as far back as I can remember (although teasing for slightly larger accomplishments as of late).

I'd hate to speak for other fans, but as I recall Liverpool has been pretty much the same, but without the two notable exceptions.

And I'm pretty sure ManU has had the same year since 1993, but to be honest the thought makes me question why I follow the damned sport.
Derby, I promise I pay attention to more teams than this, NYBlues


...Jonno McSchmonno, do teams have the same season year after year....?

I'd suggest Charlton. They used to fade away every year.

Each Autumn they'd look good for a bit, flatter to deceive and then fall away after February each year eventually resulting in Curbishley upping sticks....Aston Villa seem to be the modern-day example, all be it a long-ball kick-and-rush version.
Thom, (you want bait, I give you bait) Newport


...In response to Jonno McSchmonno earlier, the simple answer to the question, 'do other people find their teams have the same season year after year?' seems to have been written for Spurs fans to answer.

Apart from the occasional cup run, our seasons always pan out the same:

1) Eternal optimism at the start of the season, especially with the latest foreign import / big money signing (e.g. Rebrov, etc.)
2) Crashing down to earth fairly soon on with a few horrible defeats snatched from the jaws of victory (Wolves, Stoke this year)
3) Hope again after a nice little run in the middle of the season followed by a decent cup run (Bring on Fulham)
4) Having our pants pulled down by the big boys again and again and again (and always hoping that we'll beat that lot down the road, while fully expecting not to)
5) A very successful season, if only we could win our last x number of games (here comes the top four)
6) Not managing to win those games, and dropping from 4th (lasagne gate)
7) Repeat ad nauseam.

It would be exciting if we hadn't seen it all before!
Tony B (who knows, it might change this year! Nah...) THFC


...In response to Jonno, the Leeds fan...

All the time.
Callum, MUFC, North London


The Boys From Brazil
Looks like Spurs really are ready for the top four with the signing of Sandro, lets hope he matches up to Brazil U-21 stars Lucas, Anderson, Denilson and err Mineiro.
Neil 'Mirandinha' Edwards


In Short: Probably, Yes
Should Gudjohnsen receive an assist for his wonderful step over against Stoke?
Tomas L


Location Location Location
Just to continue from Joe's (BWFC) comments regarding the attendances of Bolton and Burnley. On the surface Burnley would appear to fall into the 'passionate local fans packing the stadium' category, however if you look at last season (their promotional season), you'd be surprised to see their average attendance was a mere 13,082 - under 60% of the stadiums capacity (18 clubs in the Championship had a better % than Burnley!). In my opinion this is slightly disappointing support in a season where the club is pushing for the playoffs. Bolton on the other hand had an average attendance of 22,486, just under 80% of the stadium's capacity, in a fairly disappointing season.

So, Bolton has better support? Not really. Of the respective urban areas (with which clubs would expect to draw the bulk of their support), Burnley managed to attract just under 20% of the local population (a figure which has risen to around 30% this season). Bolton on the other hand only managed to attract 10% of its local population.

So, Burnley has better support? Not necessarily. Bolton's biggest problem with regards to attendance is the location of their stadium - arguably the worst located stadium in the football league - in terms of radius from town centre, access and surrounding amenities. It's therefore no wonder they struggle to fill the stadium. So, which of these Lancashire lovelies has the best support? I don't really care. What I do care about is the saddening sight of increasingly empty seats, of which there are many complex factors - costs, unemployment, demographics, work in the community etc etc. However when it comes to filling a stadium, in my opinion, the over-riding factor is Location Location Location.
Everton (should stay well away from) Kirkby


Is It A Bird? Is it A Plane?
Every time I scroll down the homepage, instead of the small picture of Almunia, I briefly see Pegasus, the winged horse. Pareidolia? Or a vision from the gods about our man's newly-found flightful agility? Or do I just need to stop refreshing the page so much when I'm at work?
Mike Hall


Dear Stan...
Since you pay such attention to this site, Mr Collymore, I'll take this opportunity to inform you that Bolton vs Everton is NOT a 'local derby' as you kept referring to it on Saturday on Talksh*te.
Joe (how poor is stan, collymore;s grammar and punctuation????????????????????????????????????????))))))))) BWFC